Founders: Sam Means and Michael Rhee
Date Based: 2022
Location of Headquarters: Chicago,IL; New York, NY and Phoenix, AZ
Quantity of Bitcoin Held in Treasury: N/A
Variety of Staff: 3
Web site: https://wavlake.com/
Public or Non-public? Non-public
Sam Means is bringing the DIY spirit of punk rock to Bitcoin.
Means, co-founder of Wavlake, a music streaming platform that employs each Bitcoin’s Lightning Community and Nostr, has been innovating within the music business for the reason that early 2000s. From selling native exhibits to serving to handle his personal band because it toured the world to working a serious artist merchandise enterprise, Means has put within the work and discovered greater than a handful of classes alongside the best way.
Now, he’s taken these classes and mixed them with what he’s discovered from his ten years of expertise within the Bitcoin house to assist create Wavlake, a music streaming platform that cuts out the intermediary, permitting followers to stream sats to on to their favourite musicians. Wavlake is a counter to Spotify, well-known for hardly paying most of the artists featured on its platform.
In my interview with Means, we focus on his journey within the music business, how he discovered and discovered about Bitcoin, the method of making Wavlake and the way he balances his time between Wavlake and his different enterprise endeavors.
A transcript of our dialog, edited for size and readability, follows under.
Frank Corva: You’re the co-founder of Wavlake, the founding father of the Lightning Retailer, and I simply discovered you additionally personal a band merch firm. Is that this appropriate?
Sam Means: Yeah. So, I ought to most likely cease calling it my primary enterprise, however my oldest enterprise is Hey Merch. We do e-commerce, display printing for tour success, direct-to-customer success. It is like a one-stop store for merch should you’re a band.
Corva: I’d like to listen to the way you stability all of that, however let’s begin with how you bought concerned with music.
Means: I’ve carried out form of every little thing. [It started] with punk bands. A few of these bands had been taking part in in Mesa, Arizona, and I used to be from the suburbs. I bought a automotive, piled all my mates in it and we began going to $5 punk exhibits in basements. That modified every little thing for me.
I began working at a venue after which began a promotion firm with a pair mates. The entire time I used to be in bands. I used to be in three bands with this dude — we simply saved beginning bands till one among them was profitable. We bought signed to a serious label, bought dropped, after which determined to do every little thing ourselves.
We began our personal label, bought distribution and labored with a extremely cool administration firm. We used all of the DIY stuff that we discovered at “punk faculty.” We constructed up a extremely good following. We had been touring always.
All by means of that, I actually solidified all of the music enterprise stuff. I used to be at all times the accountable dude within the band that was coping with merch and getting paid.
Lengthy story quick, I wore numerous hats within the enterprise and finally began a merch firm. We had a good friend who discovered find out how to display print. We arrange an e-commerce retailer in 2005, which was very tough to do. Shopify did not exist then.
Quick-forward to 2014, I would been listening to about Bitcoin from a good friend of mine. He is nonetheless round. Shout out to Mike Jarmuz.
Corva: Mike Jarmuz from Lightning Ventures?
Means: Yeah. He is a good friend of mine from center faculty and was a part of that complete story I simply instructed. He began the label that put out my first band’s first document.
He additionally instructed me about Bitcoin. He’d moved to New York, began a bar and was one of many first locations in New York to have a Bitcoin ATM.
By this level, I used to be utilizing Shopify for Hey Merch, and I noticed that you possibly can settle for Bitcoin with Shopify. I used to be like, “Alright, properly, I am nonetheless form of sketched out by this, but when some individuals wish to give it to me in alternate for band merch, I assume that is okay.”
In 2017, I heard in regards to the Lightning Community. I arrange a few nodes — did not know what to do with them — and simply turned them on. I used to be similar to, “I am serving to” [laughter].
A few years later, I heard Paul from Sphinx on Marty Bent’s podcast. I began trying into it and noticed that you possibly can add music to it. I used to be like, “What’s stopping me from making a Sphinx room and simply calling it just like the Lightning Music Room or one thing?”
So, I did that and uploaded all my music to. I took an RSS feed, put it into the podcast index and was like, “Hey all people, look, you possibly can stream music over Lightning.”
Corva: Wow.
Means: Then, I began this factor referred to as the Lightning Retailer. It was simply an experiment. I stated, “I’ll simply put out a bunch of bootleg music shirts, like West coast punk mashups on T-shirts with delicate Bitcoin issues and discover all of the tremendous massive music nerds in Bitcoin if there are any.”
“In the event that they know who the Descendants and Black Flag are they usually’re into Bitcoin, there is likely to be an opportunity they may a minimum of like — trigger I am not a technical particular person — stroll me by means of what must technically occur with a view to make this truly occur as a substitute of simply fumbling.”
Corva: That appears like a enjoyable method to go fishing for assist.
Means: It was completely fishing. Folks had been actually like, “What is that this? What are these shirts? We won’t even purchase them as a result of you haven’t any liquidity in your node.” I had individuals from Lightning Labs DMing me being like, “Hey, dude, like these items appears to be like tremendous cool, however nobody should purchase it as a result of you have no liquidity.” I used to be like, “What’s that?” It was actually enjoyable. I did that within the very starting of ‘21.
Then, I began going to extra conferences and connecting individuals with people who had been constructing issues adjoining to what I used to be making an attempt to see occur.
After which this dude Michael Rhee from Chicago constructed this factor referred to as Wavlake. It wasn’t precisely what I hoped to see, however it was one thing. It was like, “Okay, this man made a factor the place you possibly can join it to your node and you may add music and receives a commission with out having to add it by means of Anchor or one thing. It [wasn’t live] but, although.
So, I helped him take a look at it earlier than he launched it. I used to be additionally serving to with Lightning Ventures at that time. I bought Michael on a name with [the team at Lightning Ventures] to see how we might assist him.
It was simply too technical, although. It was a cool thought, however it simply wasn’t precisely catching on for plenty of causes. After that, I form of misplaced contact a bit bit.
Then, I ran into him at a Bitcoin convention in 2022. He was like, “Hey, I am gonna must get a job. Solely 27 individuals have signed up for [Wavlake].”
I used to be like, “Okay, do not cease as a result of such as you’re on the suitable path. Someone wants to do that.” Then, I had this concept. I referred to as him and stated, “I feel you have to change the complete factor. Would you wish to possibly simply begin over and launch a [new] product?
Corva: When was this?
Means: October of ‘22. We reorganized the entire enterprise and began over. In January of ‘23, we relaunched with a totally totally different product and model.
By that summer time, we had met Ainsley Costello. She grew to become the primary Wavlake famous person. She’s bought a brand new music out right now referred to as “Folks Pleaser,” and other people ought to test it out.
Then, Nostr got here alongside virtually instantly after we launched. We’d had this long-term imaginative and prescient of how we might make this a social factor down the highway, however there aren’t numerous social layers on RSS. Nostr was basically only a second method to distribute these information. We had been like, “Hey, we are able to publish on RSS after which publish to relays.”
Corva: Is Wavlake a Nostr shopper?
Means: Considered one of our merchandise for artists is named Wavlake Studio. That is the place you add your music. While you add your music, it distributes to RSS.
We robotically push that to the podcast index and any shopper that is studying that index and has a monetization functionality could have the power to tug that music into their library. It’s tagged music.
Something pulling within the music tag goes to see that library after which we concurrently push it. We created a Wavlake relay that we push it out to.
So, each music will get printed as a Nostr notice, however pushes off of RSS. It simply occurs on an internet site and will get pushed to those channels. So, simply consider them as distribution channels.
Once we began critically excited about Nostr, we determined, “Effectively, there’s a few issues right here we are able to do. One, we are able to enable individuals to log in with Nostr on Wavlake. So, should you simply wish to be a listener and you do not wish to create an account, you possibly can simply log in along with your Nostr account and work together.”
Then, we began pondering, “Okay, properly, if we’re going to make the most of Nostr for lots of social parts, most of these are going to occur in a cellular app. So, we [built] a factor referred to as Wavman, which was our Nostr participant proof of idea.
Our cellular app for iOS and Android continues to be in beta. That’s an absolute Nostr shopper. While you join, you are given a non-public key and a public key, or you possibly can simply log in and work together.
Corva: It sounds prefer it was a reasonably natural course of.
Means: Wavlake began as a conceptual factor to see if music might work on Lightning. I wished to see it occur as a result of the potential is so sturdy for this factor to fully change the infrastructure that we exist in right now as musicians.
In my expertise, you must begin someplace. If you wish to be in a band, you possibly can’t simply be like, “It is enjoyable — we performed three exhibits after which broke up after which I bought a job.” It’s a must to simply hold pushing by means of.
I assumed it was a good suggestion. It simply wanted some work. We’ll simply hold doing it till it really works. Or a minimum of till someone else with much more cash comes alongside and takes the thought and makes it work.
On the very least, we may be like a spark for a much bigger thought. Possibly TIDAL comes alongside and allows this.
My final purpose is simply to see this variation the music business. I do not care who does it. If we play a small half in that, that is improbable.
Corva: For instance you proceed to iterate and Bitcoin turns into extra normalized. How lengthy would it not take for Wavlake to exchange one thing like Spotify?
Means: We’ve good Bitcoin service suppliers. We’ve wallets. We’ve all the basic stuff in place and dealing.
We’ve the cash that is so sturdy and being talked about within the mainstream media each single day. There is a ticker for it on TV.
It is time to herald the mainstream. It is time to herald the normies. Let’s get them right here. And we’re not going to try this with boring…
Corva: Lectures in Austrian economics?
Means: Yeah, and like, and like steak dinners and stuff. We will convey them in with music and leisure and social media.
Bitcoin is for everybody, and we have to construct the stuff for everybody to make use of it. I feel that we’ve an excellent probability at serving to loads as a result of proper now we’re one of many primary methods for music to waltz into each Bitcoin and Nostr.
Corva: Completely. However whilst you’re making an attempt to do that, how do you stability your time between Wavlake, Lightning Retailer and Hey Merch?
Means: With Lightning Retailer, I’ve a success heart, however I nonetheless pack all my very own Lightning Retailer orders. I nonetheless wish to put free stickers [in the shipments]. It’s only a factor I do for enjoyable. Even when it will get form of loopy, like when Jack wears the Satoshi shirt on the Tremendous Bowl subsequent to Beyoncé and Jay-Z and issues get busy, it stresses me out, however I nonetheless will pack each single a type of orders.
With the merch stuff, I’ve a extremely good group in Arizona that helps hold that factor going. It would not require a ton of day-to-day work.
And we’re nonetheless so small with Wavlake.
It is robust to stability stuff, however I’ve at all times had numerous issues occurring. I operate higher when I’ve extra issues taking place. I will solely work with issues that I feel can finally work collectively.
So, these are numerous various things, however they’re all in the identical world. It is like, I make music, I promote merch. I promote merch for bitcoin. I am a Bitcoin particular person. I’ve a music firm that is in Bitcoin and likewise has merch. All this stuff join.
Corva: How a lot do a number of the greater artists on Wavlake make?
Means: The most effective metric right here is that the majority artists who’re energetic on Wavlake are averaging about 12 cents a zap.
It is not in regards to the whole quantity that they’ve made. Ainsley Costello has been on numerous podcasts saying she made $1,500 in her first couple of months, and he or she had solely made possibly $600 in her complete lifetime as a musician. She’s 19 or 20 now and has been doing this since she was a child and has solely seen $600 or $700.
It is extra about hope. Individuals who actually get it are getting it as a result of numerous these different issues like these shitcoins and NFTs which can be about earning money actually quick — everybody’s sick of that. Artists are on the lookout for sustainability.
Simply took Man Like Kweks. He is been very vocal about how he is like paying his utility payments with what he’s making on Wavlake.
We additionally simply did an interview with this actually nice poet OKIN who’s in a gaggle referred to as…
Corva: Black Vulcanite?
Means: Yeah, Black Vulcanite. He made [the equivalent of] 500 Namibian {dollars} [from boosts and zaps on Wavlake] final month. That is about $80 US {dollars}.
So, yeah, there’s hope. All of this stuff are on the market that truly have an opportunity to assist individuals in a sustainable means. It may convey bands nearer to their followers, which I do know, primarily based on my expertise, is a very powerful factor.
Corva: You will be working with Bitcoin Journal on a vinyl launch. Are you able to inform me a bit bit about this?
Means: Yeah, we did a extremely cool contest the place present Wavlake artists or new artists might simply add music to Wavlake and the 21 songs that earned essentially the most sats would go to the subsequent degree. 11 artists out of these artists who made these 21 songs ended up on the document.
Man Like Kweks, Ainsley Costello and Joe Martin will likely be on there. It may be accessible on the Bitcoin convention. We’re additionally doing a live performance there on July 25, business evening, with Ainsley Costello, Joe Martin and JUSTLOUD, who’s been burned by the business and is hopeful with what’s taking place on this [Wavlake] world.
Corva: Superior. That appears like numerous enjoyable.
Means: It has been cool to seek out the Bitcoiners, and we’re joyful for all of the assist on this group. We’re simply going to maintain doing our factor.
